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 Post subject: Pope, in Africa, Says Condoms Aren't the Way to Fight H.I.V.
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2009, 6:04 pm 
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http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... oms&st=cse

I assume most of the people who care about shit like this have already seen the article, but I thought it might be worth discussing. When I first read about this, I was pretty fucking upset to be honest. The fact that someone with such a massive influence is getting in front of millions of undereducated and poor "followers" and telling them not to use condoms because it "perpetuates the AIDS epidemic" is so beyond rational science that it's almost mind-boggling. Thankfully, most reputable medical organizations immediately came out against the statement so hopefully it won't have a huge impact, but I'm sure it'll cause quite a few more pregnancies and deaths from AIDS.

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 Post subject: Re: Pope, in Africa, Says Condoms Aren't the Way to Fight H.I.V.
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2009, 9:28 pm 
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Quote:
The pope said a responsible and moral attitude toward sex would help fight the disease.


What?

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 Post subject: Re: Pope, in Africa, Says Condoms Aren't the Way to Fight H.I.V.
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2009, 1:40 pm 
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Frankly I'm surprised and appalled by the this, especially considering the righteous and unblemished track record of the papacy.




Oh wait...

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 Post subject: Re: Pope, in Africa, Says Condoms Aren't the Way to Fight H.I.V.
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2009, 2:11 pm 
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Following this statement, I claim by similar logic that wearing a seatbelt is dangerous because it promotes unsafe driving.

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 Post subject: Re: Pope, in Africa, Says Condoms Aren't the Way to Fight H.I.V.
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2009, 2:44 pm 
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see even people that arent allowed to have sex believe it feels better without a condom.
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 Post subject: Re: Pope, in Africa, Says Condoms Aren't the Way to Fight H.I.V.
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2009, 2:47 pm 

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Xyrm wrote:
Following this statement, I claim by similar logic that wearing a seatbelt is dangerous because it promotes unsafe driving.


Nice :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Pope, in Africa, Says Condoms Aren't the Way to Fight H.I.V.
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2009, 5:34 pm 
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Africans can't afford condoms so it's a moot point.

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 Post subject: Re: Pope, in Africa, Says Condoms Aren't the Way to Fight H.I.V.
PostPosted: April 7th, 2009, 6:42 pm 
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Aus wrote:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950CE6D91F39F93BA25750C0A96F9C8B63&scp=2&sq=Pope%20Condoms&st=cse

I assume most of the people who care about shit like this have already seen the article, but I thought it might be worth discussing. When I first read about this, I was pretty fucking upset to be honest. The fact that someone with such a massive influence is getting in front of millions of undereducated and poor "followers" and telling them not to use condoms because it "perpetuates the AIDS epidemic" is so beyond rational science that it's almost mind-boggling. Thankfully, most reputable medical organizations immediately came out against the statement so hopefully it won't have a huge impact, but I'm sure it'll cause quite a few more pregnancies and deaths from AIDS.


To play the role of Devil's advocate: Assuming what I think the basis of his logic is right, it does hold water. Wearing a condom isn't anywhere near a foolproof way to avoid STIs though it helps. If you consider Utopian like conditions based on Catholic morals(lol) it can make sense: where everyone got their STI tests, didn't have sex unprotected sex unless married, ect.

I don't think it would be disagreeable to say that under these conditions the epidemic would die off or at the least be more under control. Where as if you have 'immoral' individuals sleeping around or raping people even if they use a condom they can still spread the disease. The condom in this case would kind of be an enabler.

But let's face it, like Azuri said, most cant afford condoms much less tests to determine if they are infected and the number of free test facilities is limited. Also consider that in a underdeveloped country like Africa many factors probably contribute to the AIDs epidemic and its roots are much deeper than immorality or the lack of use of condoms.

I won't say the Pope was wrong in his logic, but I don't think blasting a tool used to help control the epidemic considering the reality of the situation was smart at all.
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 Post subject: Re: Pope, in Africa, Says Condoms Aren't the Way to Fight H.I.V.
PostPosted: April 7th, 2009, 6:57 pm 
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Really, though, the point is that people are always going to have sex, no matter what the Catholic church says about it. That being the case, discouraging the use of condoms only serves to propagate the AIDS issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Pope, in Africa, Says Condoms Aren't the Way to Fight H.I.V.
PostPosted: April 7th, 2009, 7:24 pm 
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Aus wrote:
Really, though, the point is that people are always going to have sex, no matter what the Catholic church says about it. That being the case, discouraging the use of condoms only serves to propagate the AIDS issue.


Yup, that's the reality of it, his logic is alright though. IMO fuck Africa, we have our own shitbag full of problems on American soil that need to be addressed. I wouldn't mind it if we took all the resources we dump into that place and put them to use back here.
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 Post subject: Re: Pope, in Africa, Says Condoms Aren't the Way to Fight H.I.V.
PostPosted: April 12th, 2009, 8:11 am 

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Fabalous wrote:
IMO fuck Africa, we have our own shitbag full of problems on American soil that need to be addressed. I wouldn't mind it if we took all the resources we dump into that place and put them to use back here.


In fairness, current circumstances leave the $17-18 billion of US government foreign aid looking like chicken feed compared to the multiple trillions that your government's currently forking out to any corporation that's willing to put its hand out for a few billion. It's a sad state of affairs when the US government's given two dead-weight car companies more aid in the last six months than it has the entire rest of the world.

Of course, that's not to say that the aid to Africa's been achieving damned much. Helping keep kids alive today to fight in the next round of civil wars or die in a decade's time to AIDS doesn't sound like a particularly good investment to me.
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 Post subject: Re: Pope, in Africa, Says Condoms Aren't the Way to Fight H.I.V.
PostPosted: April 12th, 2009, 5:04 pm 
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Iniliara wrote:
Fabalous wrote:
IMO fuck Africa, we have our own shitbag full of problems on American soil that need to be addressed. I wouldn't mind it if we took all the resources we dump into that place and put them to use back here.


In fairness, current circumstances leave the $17-18 billion of US government foreign aid looking like chicken feed compared to the multiple trillions that your government's currently forking out to any corporation that's willing to put its hand out for a few billion. It's a sad state of affairs when the US government's given two dead-weight car companies more aid in the last six months than it has the entire rest of the world.

Of course, that's not to say that the aid to Africa's been achieving damned much. Helping keep kids alive today to fight in the next round of civil wars or die in a decade's time to AIDS doesn't sound like a particularly good investment to me.


Yop, give me that money.. I'll put it to good use :D
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 Post subject: Re: Pope, in Africa, Says Condoms Aren't the Way to Fight H.I.V.
PostPosted: April 12th, 2009, 7:53 pm 

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Fabalous wrote:
Yop, give me that money.. I'll put it to good use :D


:D
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 Post subject: Re: Pope, in Africa, Says Condoms Aren't the Way to Fight H.I.V.
PostPosted: April 28th, 2009, 6:30 am 
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Perhaps the Papacy just wants more life in the world to indoctrinate and corrupt. I doubt his underlying motives have anything to do with stopping the spread of STI/HIV, but in actuality it is promoting the behavior of having sex without condoms. It's like the crowds of fanatics applauding every word Mother Teresa said about abortion, oblivious that they are being spoon fed beliefs.

Idol worship has become a plague upon the earth ~ people need to realize they are the ones with the power and to stop handing that power over to their chosen Idols (whether it be a religious, media, corporate, or political icon). One cannot change the world, but they can change how they live, and that example may inspire others. No need to place expectations on another to change the world for you.

"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi


This was an interesting documentary on Mother Teresa done by Christopher Hitchens exposing what he believed was her true nature and motives while alive in the world:


/shrugs at the Evil Empire

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 Post subject: Re: Pope, in Africa, Says Condoms Aren't the Way to Fight H.I.V.
PostPosted: April 28th, 2009, 6:48 am 
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Raeus and Ashra wrote:
One cannot change the world, but they can change how they live, and that example may inspire others.


I like that.

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